Championing Neurodiversity: Practical Tips from Mel Francis

Jo Taylor (MD of Let’s Talk Talent) talks to Mel Francis about one of her passions – championing neurodiversity in workplaces. 

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Transcript of the Championing Neurodiversity in the workplace episode:

Jo Taylor  

Hi, and welcome to the Let’s Talk Talent podcast. We’re going to be sharing, over a series of episodes, tips and techniques bringing our friends and family to share their stories, their experience of working life today, because together we can create simply irresistible organisations. Happy listening!

Jo Taylor  

Hi, everybody. I’m Jo, MD of Let’s Talk Talent. And I’m really excited to be joined today by Mel Francis. Mel is a senior HR professional and neurodiversity champion. And she’s joining me on Episode 11 of the Let’s Talk Talent podcast to talk about neurodiversity. So welcome Mel.

Mel Francis  

Hi Jo. Thank you so much for asking me to join you, it’s so lovely.

Jo Taylor  

Brilliant. So let’s dive in. For all of our listeners, tell us what neurodiversity is.

Mel Francis  

It’s a great question, Jo. I think a lot of us have heard this term being used quite frequently now. And yet, there’s still a bit of a misunderstanding, from some not everyone, as to what neurodiversity is. So let me just explain. Neurodiversity is an umbrella term, which is used to describe all neurodiverse conditions. And people have heard of some of these conditions, maybe have heard of all of them. But let me just give you a list of what those conditions are. They are dyslexia, which is where people may have problems with reading, writing and spelling, dyscalculia, which affects the ability to acquire maths skills, developmental coordination disorder, or dyspraxia, which affects our fine and/or gross motor coordination. And that’s in children and adults, and may also affect speech. Developmental language disorder, which is a type of speech, language and communication need, where the individual may have difficulty talking and understanding language. Autistic spectrum disorder, which is the way in which people think about and experience the world around them, which may be different to most people. And the next condition is attention deficit hyperactivity disorder, which is ADHD, which is a condition that affects people’s behaviour. People may seem restless or have trouble concentrating or may act on impulse. And then finally, Tourette syndrome, which some people feel shouldn’t be under the neurodiversity banner, but I’m popping it under there, which is a condition that causes a person to make involuntary sounds and movements called tics. So the umbrella term “neurodiversity” was coined by a lady called Judy Singer who’s still really active in the space in championing neurodiversity. She’s Australian, and it really describes all of those conditions.

Jo Taylor  

So why is this important for HR professionals to be aware of and, in your experience, how good is HR in being inclusive and being cognizant of this wide ranging spectrum of symptoms and objectives?

Mel Francis  

It is a really great question. I think if we look at the job title: “diversity and inclusion”, or jobs including that term, have increased by 104% in the last year, and yet the number of those diversity and inclusion strategies that are including neurodiversity is still not many. So I think we’ve still got a great opportunity here to make this difference. And the reason why I feel like it’s so vitally important is recent research shows that up to one in five of us are neurodiverse. So that means that that’s 20% of our working population, which is a lot of talent. And if we’re overlooking those talented individuals, because of neurodiverse conditions, or with a lack of understanding of neurodiverse conditions, that’s a lot of talent to miss out on. So I think for me, as an HR professional, it’s been really important to me to continue to champion – or to champion, not continue, and I will continue – but to start to champion neurodiversity, because it’s such an important element of true diversity and diverse talent.

Jo Taylor  

So what can people practically do when they’re looking at getting great people and keeping great people? Are there tips and tricks that you’ve seen work really well in businesses that you want to pass on to our listeners?

Mel Francis  

Yeah, sure. I think the first thing to say is for HR professionals, or all of us, not just HR professionals, but for all of us to increase our awareness and appreciation of neurodiversity. So what is it? What does it mean? Every one of those neurodiverse conditions that I mentioned has strengths and challenges. And yet, when we talk about neurodiversity, we focus on the challenges and actually, if you think about the terminology that I’ve just used: attention deficit hyperactivity disorder, there’s already negative connotations with those conditions, but actually each of these conditions has strengths and challenges. And if we think about neurodiversity, which literally translates as “our brains are different”, our neuros are diverse, it means that within your organisation if you’re just going to continue to recruit people who look like you, think like you, talk like you – as we all know, that is not going to give you the most creative, diverse team. Matthew Syed, who many of us know, has written a great book called Rebel Ideas, in which he talks about cognitive diversity. Now, for me, cognitive diversity and neurodiversity are the same. But the way in which he articulates this and describes it is brilliant, and really brings it to life with the diversity in the room, and the difference that that makes to organisations and to making different decisions and to being creative and to really excelling in their space.

Jo Taylor  

So really, truthfully, if we all believe that everyone is talent, then it’s less about diversity, isn’t it? And more about inclusion, and creating workplaces where people feel that they can be themselves?

Mel Francis  

Absolutely, yeah.

Jo Taylor  

It sort of truly represents that everyone has talent. And it’s kind of that potential for “what?”. So what have you been doing to champion that? We introduced you as a neurodiversity champion; what are you doing yourself, because it’s obviously coming from a pure passion piece for you, as much as it is a professional place?

Mel Francis  

Yeah, it’s actually coming from a personal place, Jo. So my son was diagnosed with autistic spectrum disorder about three years ago. And that really was the starting point for me, because when we had his diagnosis, I didn’t really understand what that meant. And so that was the point at which I started to research and to understand, and actually, the child psychologist gave me this brilliant little cartoon, which I can share with you and the listeners, which was called “understanding the spectrum”. And the first thing that it explained to me was, autism is not a line that goes from “not autistic” to “very autistic”, and you just plonk your child somewhere along there. It’s a really complex…if you think of it like a kaleidoscope of colours, and boxes, and shapes – and when you do the assessment, or when they do the assessment, what they’re looking to do is to look for the spikes in that profile to determine where those strengths and challenges are, and whether or not that leads to a diagnosis of autism in his case, which it did. And so that really started increasing that understanding. So that’s when I started to realise that as an HR professional, and as HR more broadly, we just weren’t talking about it. And I didn’t really understand why and why it wasn’t prevalent in our diversity and inclusion efforts. So I started, and I would recommend anybody starts, with increasing awareness. Understanding what is neurodiversity. What does it mean? Take it from the basis of looking beyond the stereotypical descriptions of each of these conditions and take it from the strengths and challenges and seek to understand that, and then apply the neurodiversity lens across your organisation, and right across your employee lifecycle. So before anybody even thinks about coming to work at your organisation, where do they go? They’ll go to your website. What does your website say about your organisation? It might just say: “we are striving to be neuroinclusive”, you don’t have to be there. But the fact that you indicate that you’re on that path, I think, is really important. Then look at the way in which you recruit. What do your job adverts say? Are they inclusive? Do they say too much? Do your job descriptions say too much? Invariably, they do. What is the job? Think about this from somebody who might be neurodiverse. And really apply the highlights of the job, and don’t go on. We all have layers in job descriptions. Then think about your recruitment process, your interview process. Think about asking the question “what can I do to make this the best possible experience for you?” as opposed to: “what reasonable adjustments are required?” Changing the tone and changing the language helps to just continue this journey of being neuroinclusive. And that continues with the interview process. Thinking about: have you sent a map? Do they know who they’re going to be meeting? Have you booked the room? Is the room too bright? Is the room smelly because someone’s had something smelly for lunch, or too many people walking through past the window? You know, all of these things are really important. And then through your journey, once people are in, what’s your onboarding process, what’s your induction, what’s the first day, how do they get to the office or to your workplace or get set up at home? – answering all of these questions. And then once they’re, in being clear about “this is the job, this is how we’re gonna do it, these are the tools”, but also enabling them to be creative, to use their brilliant, neurodiverse minds to think differently about the way in which something is done or your objectives or your strategy will really be enhanced by having people who think differently. And taking it right through, say, performance management processes – transitions are sometimes tricky for those who are neurodiverse. So if you think about the point at which we all had to stay at home for lockdown, that was really difficult for some people to transition to home working and everything that that played out, and now we’re coming out of the need to be at home, what does that look like? And listen to people who are telling you that actually, they feel more comfortable in their home environment? And if they’re performing well, do you really need them to come back to the office? So there’s so many elements right throughout that really benefit from applying the neurodiversity lens, and forever learning about what that means and talk to people. Involve your neurodiverse colleagues in your organisation.

Jo Taylor  

So it maybe a bit of a controversial one, but you mentioned it when you were talking that there has been a huge increase in diversity and inclusion roles. That and engagement roles have kind of, since the pandemic, have doubled. Is this just a fad? Is this something that people are jumping on? How do we make it mainstream? How do we stop it becoming something that’s suddenly the fad of the moment and much more about that whole piece of inclusivity, and fairness, and transparency?

Mel Francis  

Yeah, really interesting question. I don’t think it’s a fad. I think probably what we’re seeing Jo, is that neurodiversity is becoming more understood. So for example, when I was at school, so I’m in my 40s, when I was at school, it wasn’t a thing. You know, I think I knew of one person who had dyslexia. I knew of one kid who was really naughty in the class, who was constantly in trouble, really disruptive. And what I know now about neurodiverse conditions, the likelihood is that he would have been diagnosed with ADHD. So I think what we’re doing actually is evolving our knowledge. And the number of people now who are being diagnosed later in life is really increasing. And yet, is a diagnosis really important? You know, do you need to have whatever it is, it’s difficult – a report or whatever to tell you that you have that condition – or are we able now to, because we know more about neurodiverse conditions, to make a diagnosis or decide or determine that we have that condition ourselves. So I don’t think it’s a fad. I think it’s something that as our knowledge and understanding increases, so will our appreciation of the fact that neurodiverse talent is really important. And I think that will come from the fact that we’re seeing more people disclose or – not just disclose, but determine – that they are neurodiverse. And they are in senior positions, they’ve been really successful. And then we can go, “oh, they’re neurodiverse”. And we’ll start to really see that come to the fore more, so I don’t think it’s going to go away,

Jo Taylor  

Which is brilliant, because that’s what true talent management’s all about. There was a brilliant ITV ad recently that had some of their reality stars and some of the people and they said it was all about hidden disability. And there was one lady who said, I suffer from mental health, I suffer from ADHD – I think Melanie Sykes this week came out and said that she… what you’re saying, and what I love, is that you’re saying “let’s just make this normal”. And I’ve never believed – and you know, this, because we’ve known each other for a long time – I don’t believe in putting people in boxes. And I think what you’re saying is a diagnosis is helpful, and it makes you understand, but then it isn’t about then a set of characteristics or principles to then solve a problem. It’s actually about understanding and really allowing somebody to thrive, normally.

Mel Francis  

Yeah, absolutely. And when you think about the fact that mental health challenges are prevalent for those who are neurodiverse. And in some situations, the reason is because we’re in a world that doesn’t fit with those boxes. So you’re constantly challenging or trying to fit and we’re in a world where it’s just really accepting, then your energy can be spent on other things rather than trying to fit. That’s simplistic, but I think that’s worked. 

Jo Taylor  

But it can be hard, right? It can be hard to feel different in an environment that is set up not for you. And I remember seeing that when I was at Channel Four, and I ran a lot of programmes to bring in people from diverse backgrounds, and I remember looking through the applications and you know, your heart melted – and we’re talking 10-15 years ago of people that would never be considered mainstream. But actually, it’s about embracing. We’ve all got things that we don’t show. So it’s like we’ve talked about before: it’s putting the human into HR. Love it. So final question: what can businesses do to benchmark themselves? Is there anything that you would advise… contact you, for example, or other people that you work with?

Mel Francis  

Yeah. So there isn’t a benchmark really. I think I wouldn’t want that to hold anybody back, though. I think the thing is: just start. So, I’m currently at London Business School, which is brilliant. And we’ve just started – I had the pleasure last week of talking to the people team about neurodiversity – which I could see the reception from them was really positive. And I’m really optimistic that we’re going to make a big difference for London Business School staff and for students, actually. So my advice is: just start. Talk to me, really happy to talk to you about how to get started. In my previous role to this, I worked with an organisation called Jisc, who are an edtech business. And again, we started with an awareness-raising session, which was really well received, but led on to the creation of a special interest group for staff. So anybody that just had an interest in neurodiversity, and we were averaging I think about 50 of us getting together every month. It’s great. And we switched from, you know, just talking generally about neurodiversity, to having more of a focus on a condition each month. And individuals from the business were really happy to share their experiences of that condition. And what that meant was, you know, there’s nothing more powerful than a personal story. But it also meant that people had real growth in their appreciation of the brilliance of neurodiversity, because, you know, they knew that person, they knew they were brilliant at what they did, and they learned more about that neurodiverse talent in the best of ways, really. So I would say, just start. Increase your awareness, increase your appreciation, start talking about it in your organisation, and it will grow. It will tell you which way it wants to go.

Jo Taylor  

Brilliant. Thank you so much for sharing your insights, getting raw with us in terms of your personal journey, and we’re here – and if anybody wants to contact Mel, then please get in contact with us. We’re really happy to connect you because good people know good people, as they say. If we want to create simply irresistible organisations, just start. Because that’s what it’s all about. So thank you so much, Mel.

Mel Francis  

My absolute pleasure. Thank you for inviting me, Jo. Thank you,

Jo Taylor  

And we look forward to speaking to you again. Thank you